Community Conversation: Matthew Rao // Beltline Rail Now
We’ve taken the COVID-19 pandemic as an opportunity to bring more content to our audiences. It seems like we were just replaying our favorite moments from the prior week’s #DoinTheWork Community Conversation with Dr. Laura Emiko Soltis when our fascinating conversation with Matthew Rao came around.
Matthew Rao is co-chair of Beltline Rail Now, a citizen action group interested in making the Atlanta Beltline more accessible and transit-friendly.
Watch the conversation in full or read the transcript from his conversation with our very own Senior Director of Programs and Partnerships, Sagdrina Jalal, below.
Full Transcript - Matthew Rao Community Conversation
Sagdrina Jalal
Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the Center for Civic Innovation's Community Conversation. Thanks for joining us. Tonight, we are going to chat with Matthew Rao. He is the co-chair of BeltLine Rail Now. We're very excited to have this conversation and see how transportation is playing a role in all that we're experiencing now in the development of our city, and just get an idea of the work that they're doing. But first, I always like to start with a conversation around the Center for Civic Innovation. I'd like to introduce the work that we do, and then I'll have Matthew come on and tell us a little bit about BeltLine Rail Now. Atlanta's widening social and economic inequality requires effective, trusted solutions that reflect our city's history and culture. The Center for Civic Innovation brings a diverse group of people and organizations in Atlanta together. And we do a couple of things. We invest in community-driven solutions to social and economic inequality; we advocate for stronger inclusion of local resident voices and better data in policymaking, and we inform and inspire action from people who love Atlanta. Our goal is to reimagine solutions to inequality in our city so that public policies and programs better reflect the needs and voices of everyone who calls Atlanta home. This is our interpretation of the Atlanta way. So we're just waiting for Matthew to join us and he'll give us a little bit of information. There you are, hey, Matthew!
Matthew Rao
Hi, Sagdrina. It's good to be here.
Sagdrina Jalal
I'm so happy you joined us. Can you tell everyone a little bit about the organization and the role that you play and what you guys are up to?
Matthew Rao
Sure. BeltLine Rail Now was founded just a little over two years ago by Cathy Woolard, who once was our City Council president, and Ryan Gravel, who is the author of the idea of the BeltLine. And they founded the organization because they saw a need to right the ship, if you will, and to produce accountability from public officials in actually building the project that had been approved for so long, had come from the grassroots level, and had so many layers of institutional funding and structure in support of it. And as More MARTA,
the plan for what we're going to build in transit, began to take shape, it was looking like large portions of the BeltLine were gonna be left out. And as you said, I'm a co-chair of the organization now and have been for a little more than a year. My co-chair, Patty Durand, and I––I don't say that we lead, I say that we help steer the ship. There's a tightknit group of seven or eight of us that have a very active leadership role in this group. And we are still here in pursuit of that same mission, which is to see that this wonderful, amazing transformational project is actually built, and built in our lifetime.
Sagdrina Jalal
Wow. That's really awesome. I'm really curious. We talk a lot about the impact that COVID-19 has had on everything and everyone. But prior to COVID-19––and we will get into that––what efforts did BeltLine Rail Now take to engage the communities on the BeltLine in your work? And then further, what are some of the successes and/or challenges?
Matthew Rao
We will come back to COVID. And I think it goes without saying that for every volunteer or nonprofit or citizen activist group, COVID has been a tremendous challenge. It's been a tremendous challenge at the citywide level and to the project we're talking about tonight and to all the communities that depend on tax funding for some of their support. We have been active the last two years in two ways. We've had large citizen activist demonstrations such as a march on the BeltLine last October. We've attended MARTA board meetings and put a call out to all those who would join us and speak in front of the MARTA board in support of the project. We've had open public meetings down at the border of Grant Park, Ormewood Park so those could find out about us and join us. And we've had great success at our march last year; we were joined by two prominent Atlantans, Brionte McCorkle and Fred Smith, who really delivered impassioned speaking in support of the connection between equity, affordability, and the BeltLine Rail project. We've also had articles in support of reports and written and penned by others in support of the ideas we're promoting. And that was going on the last couple of years. Also going on the last couple of years were some large institutional deadlines, like what was going to be included in the Draft 2050 Regional Transportation Plan at the Atlanta Regional Commission level and what was really going to make the final cut in the More MARTA program at the MARTA level. And so those involved direct action with letter-writing, emails, petitions. We delivered over 10,000 signatures. That's a lot of signatures to Mayor Bottoms' office in February just before we all began to shut down with COVID. And we took those to her office along with a paper addressing the essential connection between transit, equity, affordable housing, and anti-displacement in the whole arc of the BeltLine path.
Sagdrina Jalal
So what was the response by the mayor's office or the mayor herself?
Matthew Rao
We have not had one yet. We're still hopeful that we will. She's had her hands full.
Sagdrina Jalal
Absolutely.
Matthew Rao
And we know that. And the day we delivered those petitions, she was involved in the Iowa caucuses on behalf of a candidate. And so I think by the time she came back, she was probably in the middle of a lot of things. We would love to sit down with the mayor, and that is a primary goal of the organization this year.
Sagdrina Jalal
Well, BeltLine Rail Now is in a unique position with easy access to political leadership and high-up voices. Many organizations start at the grassroots level and then have to kind of work their way up to that megaphone. What is your perspective on not only being connected in this way at an early phase of your campaign but having to work backward and prioritize community engagement in this new year?
Matthew Rao
Well, as I said at the onset, we were founded by two very high-profile Atlantans who had a lot to do with the creation, the genesis, and the institutionalization of this project, Ryan and Cathy, and those voices are well-known. And at the same time, you and I are talking tonight, Sagdrina, because the mission has not yet been accomplished. So on the one hand, the access has been there in some measure and has opened doors. On the other hand, we still find ourselves in a position of trying to hold officials accountable for what they have already agreed to do and for really getting behind the philosophy and the big picture of how this idea connects all Atlanta in a way that no other project does. And so what we find ourselves doing now, trying to impact, we think that only two entities can really move this project forward. And those are Mayor Bottoms and our City Council. And just before COVID began to shut us down, we had decided that a chief strategy this year would be to meet the people we don't know yet in west, northwest, southwest, south Atlanta, where the BeltLine curves around and where we haven't traditionally had rank and file support. And yet we know that there are community leaders that want to hear from us and want to say to us what they think the impact of the project is or isn't in their neighborhoods. And we want to find a way to come together under the same support for this project that existed almost 20 years ago when it began. It was citywide support that put this project on the map, literally. And we think that it will be citywide support that brings it back to the forefront. And our understanding of things has evolved as other cities around the United States have built projects, have grappled with affordable housing, with issues of equity, with seeing displacement. I mean, the idea that people who've lived and own their own homes would be pushed out of them is really anathema to a lot of us. And we want to find a way to work together to see that that doesn't happen. And we believe that this project is key to that solution and we want to come together and talk. And I think that that coming together has to happen in person when it's people you don't know and you haven't met. And so as soon as we can begin finding a way to create those relationships and invite people to dialogue with us, we're ready to do it.
Sagdrina Jalal
So what does that approach look like? What is this strategy, if you will, or process that you guys have in mind as to how to get those voices that have not been well-represented in your organization? What's the process to get them more involved and engaged?
Matthew Rao
So we identified a long list of more than 20 individuals that we would like to pick up the phone and say, "Hey, would you meet us for a drink or for coffee or for lunch and talk about this idea? We can't do it in soundbites. We can't do it in bullet points. We really need to dialogue, and we'd like to have that dialogue with you because we think that there's something important here that we could all agree upon and would benefit if we understood fully each other and where we're coming from." And I think that understanding is sometimes what's missing in politics because politics is polarizing. And the route we have to take in order to make sure we kept the BeltLine literally on the map was really political, and it was really compressed into deadlines that had to be met. And the road we're on now is really more community-oriented and more in the spirit of the way the project began––going out and dialoguing. And so once we can meet––and we got this list based on people who are part of our group who live in these communities and say, "So-and-so is really influential and runs a group that does such-and-such. And you want to talk to him or her," and "So-and-so is really active in his or her NPU and you really ought to talk to them." And what we want to do is sit down and see where this idea benefits and where this idea can be part of a solution for Atlanta. It's not only a transit project. It's not only a sidewalk. It's not only arts and parks. It's really a community- and development-building exercise. And that's its magic and that's its power. There are 45 neighborhoods around the BeltLine. No other project can connect people and bridge gaps that have historically existed, built by freeways and zoning and gerrymandered districts and all of that. But this little circle that connects to MARTA and to more MARTA projects and to bus lines, this little circle that cuts through all of that can really be something extraordinary. And we believe that. And that's what drew me to this group. That's what drew me to the first hearing that Cathy and Mayor Franklin and Ryan Gravel had almost 20 years ago. It's a powerful idea.
Sagdrina Jalal
It definitely is. And it's a tremendous opportunity. But I think it's also a huge responsibility. So it'll be interesting to see how you guys are able to move forward as we kind of go into this new phase of our city and community engagement. One of the things that you said that I've been thinking about a lot lately is that during this COVID situation, it has created a chance for us to acknowledge and to recognize work that's being done that maybe wasn't on the radar for us, or we didn't give the right level of value to. And I say that because we see solutions in communities happening at the grassroots level. We see neighbors taking care of neighbors. We see neighbors raising and supporting change and addressing concerns for each other. I saw just earlier today in my neighborhood, one neighbor posted about another neighbor's garden. And within minutes, there were ten or so volunteers and materials and offers of all sorts of support. So I just wonder if, as you guys are considering how to go back to the roots of why all of this started in the first place, if that also involves taking a look at what's happening and making sure to integrate the leadership that already exists. So it sounds like you guys have some really neat plans and it'll be very great to see how it comes together.
Matthew Rao
We can't wait for us. I have everyone in my office working from home and the door is closed. We don't know how long this is going to go on. And COVID has––we don't even know what the impact financially is going to be on our city yet. We know it's going to be huge, but it's happened so fast. And the wind has been knocked out of sails so fast that we haven't caught up to the reality of what has really happened already. And that goes to the question of equity, too. Before all of this happened, we realized that there's a problem with the way we fund transit in Atlanta. And we fund transit, but More MARTA is funded by the local portion, by a sales tax that we, in the city of Atlanta, pay a half percent. And that's on top of the one percent we already pay for MARTA. And we call that kind of tax regressive. And a lot of us very reluctantly supported a kind of tax like that with the caveat and the promise that that would get this project built faster. But that's not turning out to be the case. There's a lot of ways to slice this pie, and the pie isn't very big. And the pie just got smaller because sales tax revenues are down. And we don't know how long this will last.
But we have been here before, and the sense of deja vu is not lost. About ten years ago, we were in the midst of the last recession and just beginning to come out of it. And one of the reasons our project that we're talking about tonight, the BeltLine Rail, and other transit projects in the city aren't further along, is that projected revenue from sales tax didn't materialize. And we are looking to talk to people here and elsewhere about how to fund transit differently, how to make it more equitable. And a regressive tax––the people that earn the least spend the most of their income on the essentials. And a lot of that is taxed.
And that makes it a regressive tax with the burden of that tax falling more heavily upon them as a percentage of total income. And there are other ways, and there have been other successful models to fund transit, like public-private partnerships, for example, in Washington, D.C., where you would take for granted that maybe the federal government funds everything for the Metrorail system. That's not the case. They built an infill station called NoMa, N-O-M-A, which was originally called New York Avenue, and 25 percent of the cost of that was financed through developers and property owners. And that's a model we need to look at that we've never used in Atlanta, just a for instance.
Sagdrina Jalal
Wow. So what you're really speaking to is how you see activism around the BeltLine playing a part in systems-level change in our city and kind of utilizing success in other spaces to kind of fuel that. What other areas do you see, or opportunities do you see plugging into those levels of changes that will really support communities in addition to addressing the cost of transit? Or how it's funded?
Matthew Rao
How it's funded––so the PPP, or public private partnership, is one. We have a lot of use-based taxes that are already in place in the city and at the state level. A week ago, many of you who are watching tonight may have tuned into the candidate forum that we hosted for the four candidates that are running in District 57 for the state House. The state of Georgia has not been a funder of transit. The state of Georgia has been a big roads builder and has had other transportation roles, but funding for transit at the state level––in fact, a lot of people realize that MARTA is the only big-city transit system in the United States that does not get support from its state government.
Sagdrina Jalal
Oh, wow.
Matthew Rao
The only one. And that's huge. The ATL, which is a state bureau, has been created to be an umbrella for all the metro-Atlanta transit agencies, and we're hopeful that that bureaucratic entity will also have a big budget, and that those state representatives who were debating in our forum last week will have an influence on how that money spent. We'd like to see the gas tax, the fuel tax, the motor fuel tax that we all pay when we fill up our tanks, be allowed to be spent on something other than roads. It's currently not. That went down to defeat this year at the state House, but that doesn't mean we can't bring it back up again. And that doesn't mean it doesn't matter who we vote for in District 57 and 58 and 56. These are all BeltLine districts, and all city of Atlanta districts, and who we elect and what therefore matters. So we've had a little bit of thinking that that's the way the community can influence, is to give these candidates the forum to say what they're for, and for the voters to decide what they like. And then there is the hotel-motel tax. We've used our hotel-motel tax to build a stadium that benefits the city and image. But it doesn't do a lot for the everyday life of people. And that tax can be used for other purposes as well.
There's the bonding capacity of the city directly. And so the voters of the city can say to their elected leadership, "We want to see you use the capability of the city to help finance this project." The BeltLine and the streetcar system that we have and the total buildout and plan for that were initially City of Atlanta projects, and they became MARTA projects relatively recently. But the funding for MARTA to use could come more substantially and dedicated for projects from the city itself and take a little bit of the burden off the taxpayers regressively and put a little more of the burden and spread it around, including on people who visit this city.
Sagdrina Jalal
No, I think that makes a lot of sense because I think the impact of the people who visit the city and the impact of development is felt heaviest by those that are not in the high-income bracket. So there should be some balance that's created and the pressure taken off for sure. But sometimes the things that make the most sense don't seem as obvious to the policymakers, so you're right. We have to keep introducing these things and going after it even if at first it doesn't happen, it doesn't work, we have to stay on it.
Matthew Rao
And that's where I think that the community really is the key. The community and all of its diversity. That's the key. And that's demonstrating––you know, sometimes we have to find a different way to show people something we've been saying before. And so what I have learned in this process that I didn't know before, I was attracted to the idea of the transit for itself. Because I believed in that my whole life, and I believed in the sustainability aspect of transit and making Atlanta a greener city with cleaner air. I mean, haven't you noticed, Sagdrina, during this last month how much bluer the skies have been here? I don't think it's an accident. I don't think it's just this April and May. I think it's that we haven't been putting filth into the air.
Sagdrina Jalal
Right. Right. Right.
Matthew Rao
If we could authentically, realistically, give a big proportion of the city's residents a transit, a green alternative––I mean, Atlanta BeltLine, Inc., is ABI, and they're really the managers of the whole BeltLine. Their own surveys say that 80 percent of the people would take the transit if they had it. That's huge.
Sagdrina Jalal
Yeah. That is extremely huge. But I think that the key, as you say, is letting the voices of the city speak for themselves. Because I can't speak, you can't speak, to the impact it has on other people. I mean, we can try and we can try to represent that. But it's not the same.
And so it's really important. I mean, at CCI, we say that solutions that are built for us, but not by us, are not for us. And that doesn't say anything about intentions, right? We can have all the best of intentions, but at the end of the day, if it's not with us, if we're not actually part of the process, then it cannot actually be for us.
Matthew Rao
As I've prepared this past few days to speak with you, I've gone back over a little bit of the history of the BeltLine, and I don't think there's been a city project that has had more community input over its long history––I'm talking the ten to 15 year history––than this project, where the citizens designed, in concept, some of the intersections and the way this thing would flow, where affordable housing and art and other elements were added to the project by the citizens as it came along. And there's a whole timeline that people can go see, and I can make that available to you, where you see what happened along the way and how this did not come from the inside, this idea. It never did in the beginning. I think its greatest appeal was that it came from the community, came from an individual, but it also had legs, and those legs kept getting to be many legs all over the city. And sometimes when something goes on this long, the original emotion and the original idea can be forgotten. I see that as part of our role, to keep reminding people what we said we would do for ourselves.
Sagdrina Jalal
That's right. And also, you know, the more people get involved and have their own agendas, the original mission can get lost as well. And a lot has happened in those 20 years, so it's time for us, definitely, to reconsider that. I think it's fair to say that the BeltLine, in general, is a sticky topic because of the implications on housing, transportation, gentrification, and overall accessibility in the city. Your work with BeltLine Rail Now is obviously a part of that conversation. What is your perspective on this, and on these topics?
Matthew Rao
Well, at the risk of this sounding like maybe a little bit of a simplification, what I don't think is the answer is I don't think the answer is to continue withholding investment from the areas that have traditionally not had any. That's not the answer. So I think there's a lot of fear that the BeltLine is going to bring gentrification, and with gentrification comes a whole myriad of problems that were unintended, but that are real. And displacement being the one that is––we are right in the middle of a wave of displacement. It's going on every day because people's life is moving further away from where they live. And what that looks like is, is that someone who's lived in a community among their friends and relatives and services and places of worship and all the things that make a community, and they've lived there for 20 or 30 years, and as gentrification happens, pieces of that community move away. They're still there, but pieces move away. And there comes a tipping point when enough pieces have moved away, that they, too, have to move away, because it becomes impossible to access their life. And what we think the role of the transit is––and it's really a shame that we've been... now, we're going through the second recession since this project has had a life. And what happened in the first recession ten years ago is that choices had to be made about what could be done with the diminished revenue. And the transit, which could have been begun then, was not. And so what we saw was an amenity that developers and residents could capitalize on. And a lot of people who've moved to Atlanta in the last two or three years don't even realize that the BeltLine is primarily a transit project with these other amenities. The amenities are being built, and they're driving the price of real estate up even in the places that don't have them yet. It's the anticipation of them.
Sagdrina Jalal
What can be done right now? What is being done to address this?
Matthew Rao
Well, it sounds simple, but at the city level, prioritize the transit and start building it as fast as we can, and in the areas that need it most. And those are the areas where people are without cars at a greater proportion of the population. Equity is about access, but it's about the same quality of experience. There are people that can afford to live on MARTA in this city who have a pretty good experience of public transportation when we can all go back to taking it in large numbers again. But if you say to someone, "You have access, but it takes two and three connections to get where you're going and two hours," that's not the same thing. That's not equity. And if you talk to someone whose affordable housing you built that what they really need to practically access is a car, well, that's not affordable housing. It's not just the rent. It's not what they pay. It's the whole package. And what we see clearly at BeltLine Rail Now is that we have to advocate for the whole package. And that while we are about one piece of that package, we want to affiliate and ally with people who are about and who are experts in the rest of the package. And that package includes housing policy and land use policy and parking regulations. And it includes sustainability requirements and density. We're only going to get the number of units of affordable housing we really need if we build denser in a lot of places. And the places we can build denser are the places with direct or one quarter mile access to transit.
Sagdrina Jalal
Yeah. So beyond the policy push, which, you know, full agreement that that's where it's at, and building the transit is an immediate concern and needs to happen, how are you being mindful of how BeltLine Rail Now is serving or responding in the wake of COVID-19 and beyond, particularly as the North Star you're working towards could be five or ten years away?
Matthew Rao
I wish it were only five or ten years away, Sagdrina. It's 25 years away, and the reason we're still existing is we find that unacceptable for a city with the wealth that this city has. This city leads in a lot of things, and one of the things I wish it didn't lead in, is the income disparity from the greatest to the least. We're number one. It's not San Francisco. It's not New York. It's Atlanta, Georgia. And that points out just how far we have to go. And when we say that we had an idea that we've approved for nearly 20 years and it's going to take 25 years more to build it, that's just not the city we want. We want to fight for a different city. And how are we gonna do that at the grassroots level? We're going to make these alliances and relationships with people that we haven't met yet and strengthen the ones we already do have. And we think that it's still malleable. We think that there's still time. If we didn't, we would have given up when the ARC released its report earlier this year and showed that we would wait 25 years to have anything meaningful. We think the priorities need to be flipped.
Sagdrina Jalal
Yeah. Agreed. That's great. So we'd like to open up space for a few questions just to make sure that we have covered everything that's of interest. And while we're waiting to see if questions come in, I just wanted to take a minute and talk a little bit about how you are adjusting to this new experience and a different way of living. So I think it's really interesting that you are still able to work in your office. In other ways, I'm sure your life is very, very different than it was. How are you finding normalcy, or what's a new normal for you?
Matthew Rao
So people have had different levels of engagement outside their own homes. And I've chosen to continue to go to a grocery store and shop. And I've chosen to go to the park nearly every day. And I've chosen to walk more. And I've chosen to call people and ask, how is this impacting them? Because I'm single. I live alone. I'm lucky I'm healthy. I have not been brought down by this virus. And that becomes, really, right now, the most important question I can ask anybody authentically, is, "How are you really? Number one, do you have your health?" I have an installer that nearly died from this disease and spent 13 days on a ventilator. And thankfully, he recovered. But that really puts it into perspective. And so I'm mindful of giving people space. And that is just a very little example of, well, what is it to respect to the other that you don't know? The person that you don't know that you would normally judge by how they look? And we grant each other the same respect because we have this thing in common.
Sagdrina Jalal
Yeah, I find myself checking my assumptions during this period of time. You can't really assume much of anything these days. I mean, I guess you can, but––
Matthew Rao
If someone tells me to stand here on that line, a stripe on the pavement, I stand there. I might've questioned that before, like, "Why do I have to stand there?"
Sagdrina Jalal
Yeah. I mean, I've noticed that people do seem to be taking care of each other in small ways more and being more respectful.
Matthew Rao
I see also more unanimity or agreement among the diverse population of Atlanta about what we should be doing right now than I do with, say, larger institutions like the state and federal government. I find this very interesting because Atlanta is a very diverse city and yet we all share a sense of timing that maybe it's not quite the right time to be fully open yet.
Sagdrina Jalal
Yes. That's a very good point because I was––I mean, we were all, I think, very nervous about what was going to happen when we were told that certain businesses were gonna start opening up. But I think there was a pretty big response, collective response. It was like, "No, not yet."
Matthew Rao
No, not yet. And, you know, that gives me hope, actually, Sagdrina. That gives me hope that we care enough about each other on some level, and that what we're talking about tonight is related to that. Because underneath the efforts––there's a lot of effort institutionally to polarize people. Because in that stagnation that results in polarization, someone benefits.
Sagdrina Jalal
Yes, absolutely. I mean, I've gotten calls from friends in other states and they're like, "Oh, my gosh, is it just like the crazy town in Atlanta or in Georgia?" And I'm like, "No. We have sense. We're not doing dumb things." I mean, there are always outliers. But I think in general, people are paying attention and listening to the people who know what they're talking about and doing those things. And that's very comforting for me as well. We are taking care of each other. And that's something that gives a lot of hope. Well, I really appreciate this conversation. As we leave everyone this evening, how can someone get involved? Let's say right now––we're still not sure when this is all going to completely end––but if they want to get involved in the work that you're doing and your organization, what's the best way to do that?
Matthew Rao
The best way is to sign up on either our Facebook page or on our website, beltlinerailnow.com, and to send us an email and say, "Hey, I am intrigued by such-and-such. What can I do?" While we're not meeting in public, we are meeting virtually. And, you know, the candidate forum last week happened because a lot of people got involved.
Some of those were people who are normally involved, but some of those were new faces.
And we don't think this will last forever, and we will be back out in front of the public and meeting in public and going places in public together again. We don't know when, but that's when I think that feet on the ground will make a more of a difference. But right now, if there's someone with a particular interest who just wants to know more, the website or the Facebook page or places they can do that.
Sagdrina Jalal
That's awesome. Well, thank you so much, Matthew, for talking to us this evening, sharing the great things that BeltLine Rail Now has in store. We'll be watching. We'll be paying attention.
Matthew Rao
Thank you, Sagdrina.
Sagdrina Jalal
Thank you.