#DoinTheWork Community Conversation: Rachel Willis // Elevating Equity
We sat down virtually for a community conversation with Rachel Willis (CCI Fellow 2019), the Founder of Elevating Equity, an organization dedicated to creating spaces for educators and community members to examine race and ensure every child receives an equitable education.
This talk is part of our #DoinTheWork series, where we hope to highlight the incredible civic leaders who are on the ground doing critical work in our communities right now. We hope you enjoy this conversation.
Sagdrina Jalal
Hi, everyone!
Rachel Willis
Hi, how are you?
Sagdrina Jalal
Are we live? I think we're live.
Rohit Malhotra
Uh oh, we live!
Sagdrina Jalal
So I'm just gonna give everyone a heads up: we're having a little bit of technical difficulties, but we're nimble so we're gonna make this work. I am here, this is Sagdrina, and Rohit, with the Center for Civic Innovation.
Rohit Malhotra
Making pupusas right now.
Sagdrina Jalal
Making pupusas—so he's ready to jump in if we have challenges. Rachel Willis of Elevating Equity is here to chat with us today. We're gonna begin like we always do, by telling a little bit about the Center for Civic Innovation, and we will then let Rachel take over a little bit and tell us about Elevating Equity. The Center for Civic Innovation is made up of hundreds of leaders from organizations that are focused on addressing inequality in Atlanta. We do three things: we inspire people to take action; we also invest in—
Rohit Malhotra
Alright, it's me and you, Rachel.
Rachel Willis
Sounds good.
Rohit Malhotra
Here we are. What kind of pupusas do you like? I have bean, veggie, whatever you like.
Rachel Willis
No veggie.
Rohit Malhotra
So, the Center for Civic Innovation is an organization that was started five years ago. The intention of the organization is to unite people to solve issues of social and economic inequality. The focus of our work is around inspiring people to take action, investing in homegrown ideas, and pushing for policy change. And I think we are just so fortunate to have this conversation with you, Rachel. We're so excited that you are kind of an example of someone who inspires us every single day, a true example of a homegrown idea that we've had the opportunity to work with you and learn from you about. And then you're also someone who I think is, in the long run, going to drive policy change. And you're just so important to that conversation. So, I'm gonna shoot it back over to Sagdrina to really kick us off, and I'll keep chiming in with my pupusa talk, even though that's not needed. But that's a little bit of an overview of the Center for Civic Innovation. And Rachel, we are so thrilled that you're part of the CCI family.
Rachel Willis
Me too!
Rohit Malhotra
Thanks for rocking with us with this format, we really appreciate it.
Rachel Willis
Absolutely.
Sagdrina Jalal
So, Rachel, prior to the COVID-19 crisis, what was Elevating Equity up to?
Rachel Willis
Elevating Equity launched in 2016 with the goal of helping organizations and education communities in creating anti-racist environments. That took on many different forms, from us supporting organizations in creating diversity and equity curriculums to doing curriculum audits to even see, to what extent were students learning making them see themselves in history in victims or victors, and how can we make sure that we're telling the full story of who had power, and what that looks like? It also evolved into us doing equity audits across the country, so that schools had an understanding of, "Where are the places where we're really doing very well in implementing anti-racist policies, and then where do we still have room to grow and what is that going to look like for us in the short- and the long-term?" But one of our cornerstones has always been creating and designing workshops specific for schools and organizations centered around, "What is the history of racism? How is it playing out now, and how do we see it within the world, but how is that seeping into what we're doing within our own workplace? And then, what are the remedies for that?" We've shifted focus, really honing in on, "What are the workshops, and how can we offer those to educators and also leaders?" And even beyond just education, now. We've had requests for that. So that was primarily where we've been pre-COVID-19.
Sagdrina Jalal
Wow. So let's talk about the current situation—
Rachel Willis
So, I couldn't hear you, but I think you were asking me about how Elevating Equity has been working since COVID-19, so I'm just gonna go with that. Since COVID-19 happened, we really saw a shift in some of the work that we do. And we partner with organizations long-term. One of the things that has been in the work is thinking through, with one of the organizations that we work with, "How can we continue to provide support for AmeriCorps corps members who can no longer be within schools right now—whether they are already immunosuppressed and so can't risk it to go out, or whether the programming that they were doing is no longer required once students are doing virtual learning?" And so I have been designing a program that will offer AmeriCorps service members the opportunity to use that 20 percent of their training opportunity to really dive into, "What is the history of racism and how is this played out, but also, how can I tell the story of the communities that I've served through this lens and through a racial equity story so that when we go out, we're making sure to best portray what our experiences were?"s And also keeping it real, like not shying away from the fact that often, the reason why AmeriCorps workers have to go into these schools is because they're already at a disadvantage and there is inequity that exists. So, "How can we talk about that in a way that respects the people in the communities and sheds light on the experience that we have?"
Rohit Malhotra
Rachel, I would love to know, where does this come from for you? Why is this important? Why is this an important conversation we need to be having right now?
Rachel Willis
I feel like I have always been acutely aware that racism is the "thing" and have been sounding the alarm with that throughout my whole life. But the truth is, as I started paying attention to what was happening with COVID-19, my first thought was, "Oh my God, black and brown people are going to be disproportionately affected." Just knowing everything that we know about how institutions work, about how structural racism is put in everything, from environmental racism, racial zoning laws, housing segregation, and ultimately education segregation, how that was going to lead black and brown communities to just be affected. And I feel right now, if we're not having a conversation about race, we're not only not solving the problem, we're not even solving for the pandemic. So this feels really crucial to me right now.
Rohit Malhotra
So what's interesting is, when we talk about race, it sometimes feels like, racism only looks like name-calling, or specifically just calling out "black" and "white," and tensions of the past. You always talk about racism being a little bit more nuanced and not always in-your-face like that. So what does racism really look like and how is that playing out in an issue like COVID-19?
Rachel Willis
So we have to be clear about the fact that race is really a social construct. It's not a real thing; biologically, we are the same. Some people have more melanin than others, but we are all equal. Race was actually born out of the 1600s coming out of Bacon's Rebellion, trying to make sure that there was an opportunity to separate the working class that was coming together and trying to fight for equality. And so there had to be some type of separation that was created among groups, and differentiating by skin color was the way to do it. And we slowly started seeing laws creep up that had that happen and that had been perpetuated over time. I think what's important now with COVID-19 is that, if race and the concept of racism was something that could be developed in response to something, then anti-racism is something that we could develop as a response. When we think about some of the nuances that go along with racism, it's everything from, instead of just saying, "Blacks and indigenous communities..." like our Surgeon General said last week, "You need to make sure you're lowering your alcohol and smoking less," it's like, "Mm, not actually the reason that we have a problem." Some of the underlying conditions like asthma come from the fact that, environmentally, we're 80 percent more likely to be closer to an area that's zoned with toxins in it. And all of that comes from the fact that there were racial lining and zoning policies that are at play since the 1940s that just have become how we do business as usual. Some of the reasons why we have heart disease and hypertension actually come from micro-aggressions of racism, so those tiny moments where somebody's like, "Oh, you have such a good accent, you speak such good English," or, "Where are you from?" and it's like, "Well, I'm from Atlanta, but I understand you're asking me that question of where are my ancestors from, which maybe I know, maybe I don't know, but also it's none of your business, I'm just trying to get a burger right now." And so those tiny little moments are what actually lead us to having increased rates of hypertension and heart disease that are now contributing to us being more susceptible to not just getting COVID-19, but to getting COVID-19 and ending up on a ventilator and dying. We have to get really real about "Why is this happening?" and asking the question, "Why?" so we can start unraveling some of the things that made it possible.
Rohit Malhotra
When you talk about racism, what settings do you seeing that showing up most in? You talked about it existing in our hospitals, in our healthcare system, in our education system. When you talk about this, what's the response? Is everyone like, "Absolutely not, that does not exist, you're crazy, what do you know, you're no teacher, you're no scientist, what is it," or are they ready to take action and ready to go? What's the response that usually people have to something like that?
Rachel Willis
The response is usually like, "I didn't understand how in-depth it was." People know racism exists. Everybody thinks they're not a racist. So that's a bit of like, "Why do I have to engage in a conversation about racism if I, myself, am not racist?" There are also people who are just resistant like, "That might've happened during slavery, that might've happened during the Trail of Tears, but that doesn't have anything to do with me." Those people usually struggle more with entering into these types of conversations. But there's no one place where racism exists. There are places where we're doing a better job at having these types of conversations about racism, but the truth is, the moment you walk outside from self-isolating, racism exists. If you take a look at your zip code and the income levels and the racial demographics, that's a product of structural racism. If you take a look at the amount of time that a doctor spends having a conversation with a black patient about cancer versus a white patient, that's a product of racism through implicit bias that they may not even be aware of. It's everywhere. The question really is, "How are we focusing and changing it?"
Rohit Malhotra
If someone accepts that fact, they say, "Look, okay, I don't know what I don't know. I'm not a bad person, I haven't explicitly tried to be racist in my practice, I try to be conscious of it, and I just don't know, what am I supposed to do, Rachel? Am I just supposed to read more Ta-Nehisi Coates? Am I supposed to watch more movies? Am I supposed to beat myself up about it?" At a certain point, people just don't know how to deal with it. So what do you find? Do you find that people are aggressive in their response, or do they want to be better? And then if they do want to be better, what do you tell them? What is the response to, "What can I do to be anti-racist?"
Rachel Willis
The first step is really making sure that people have that awareness. But that's where you start, you don't stay there. The next piece is getting really nitty-gritty on, "How am I observing racism within my own life? Is there somebody I need to be checking in my group who's making derogatory statements, and they're saying them as jokes, but I actually need to be addressing that and calling them into a conversation versus calling them out just as a racist?" And committing to do that not once, but every single time that person or family member says that. But it also looks like taking a look at how institutional racism plays out in the workplace. So what are the rules, policies, and procedures that are reinforcing racial inequity, or are lifting up racial equality? And so specifically, we need to be thinking about, "What does it look like for a person of color to be successful within an organization? Are we judging people in their performance and even writing job descriptions based on characteristics of white dominant culture? Are we talking about how we can see collectively? Are we creating a nonprofit organization that is supporting communities of color, but our board is all rich white people? How are we bringing in the voices and making sure that people see themselves represented, and that when we do hire people of color, that they're not there just as a quota, but we actually created an inclusive environment?" It's really important to get those steps together so that people understand, "Now I'm woke, but now what?"
Rohit Malhotra
Yeah. Sagdrina, do we have you back?—Okay, so I will continue. I think Sagdrina is the perfect voice to really be hitting on this—this is something that she thinks about very intentionally. So sorry for the technical difficulties. I know that there is someone better to be asking these questions than me, but I think equally as insightful to hear from you as it always is. When you talk about, "Okay, well you need to do something about it, you need to call it out," what's the proper way to call it out? I wake up some mornings and I'm like, "I'm just angry," and now by calling it out, what I really want to do is call everybody out. No one is safe from being called out. Hey foundations, you're racist. Hey government, you're racist. Hey, the own organization I'm a part of, maybe we're racist. And that feels counterproductive. But then on the other hand, you don't want to sit silent, but sometimes that feels like, well, that's the safest thing to do, that's the most responsible thing to do. How do you act? What's the appropriate way to act? Is it okay to be angry and yell at people, or am I supposed to say it nicely, and how long do we need to keep saying things nicely before we start a bit of a revolution?
Rachel Willis
Hey, revolution! So I think we hear enough yelling, whether it is verbally or over Twitter from somebody's President, not mine, so I'm just not a big proponent of yelling at people in general. And I think it's important to start small. So first, starting with ourselves, of, "What are some things I need to check about myself, about the extent of how I allow things to happen? How I uplift voices of people of color? How I step in without somebody having to ask me to be an ally, and what that looks like?" And we're kind of like, "Alright, we're doing well at that, now let me go think about, what is that thing I've always thought was maybe not equitable within my workplace? And let me figure out, am I the only one who feels that way?" And then building a coalition of folks until we can think about, "How are we gonna change this work-from-home policy to make sure that it's supporting all people, and particularly our women of color who are needing to take off earlier to go pick up their students, or whatever it is that is happening within your organization?" And then just continuing to bite off, "What are the other things that I need to do?" But I think, thinking about it from a place of, "What's the one thing I'm gonna tackle and go hard at right now? And when that has been accomplished, what am I going to next?" And I think, particularly for people who are white, asking questions of people of color in your circle, "What are the things I could be aligning with you on?" But also noticing, "Is there something that they are? Like, they have ranted about this on their Facebook, on their Twitter, for weeks, and I haven't spoken up about it. Maybe I'm just gonna uplift my voice about that right now and ask what else I can do."
Rohit Malhotra
One of the reasons we really wanted to have you do this conversation was based on something you wrote recently, which was around it being okay to not be okay. You talked about having those conversations with your black and brown counterparts, making sure you're talking to folks, but it feels like there's this extra burden placed on black and brown people to talk about race. And sometimes you kind of feel like, "Maybe we don't need to be involved in that conversation anymore. Maybe that just needs to be a conversation that happens without us." But then if that happens without us, then you're gonna miss some details. So how do you not make sure you have to keep reliving your trauma in order to be an educational tool for the rest of the world? How do you talk to people in that way? What's a good balance to that?
Rachel Willis
There are definitely two camps of, people of color shouldn't have to carry this burden, but then also if we don't carry the burden, then who will? Because we didn't create the problem, but we sometimes feel like we need to solve it. And I think the truth is, you've got to pick, "Here's when I'm all the way in game and here's when I'm not." So for me, even though I run Elevating Equity, when COVID-19 hit, and my deep awareness of racism and how this was gonna play it, I was just frozen. And I was like, "I can't hold a workshop right now, I can't go on live and talk about anything insightful. I could be a great thought leader, but I actually need to get myself together before I can show up for someone else." And I think it's about being real of, "When are the moments I need to step back and have self care, and then when are the times I need to use my voice because people listen more, or because, if they don't listen, I'm gonna make sure they hear me?" And I think that just comes from a deep sense of being in tune with who you are and grounded in what your "why" is. What is the reason that you're gonna fight for this right now, and going forward? I do think that black and brown people have a burden that we shouldn't have to carry. And I think, often, we're screaming so loud, and the only hope that I personally have is that people are hearing me and are screaming on the other side for me. And sometimes I get to see that very clearly, and other times I have no idea that it's happening. But it's just something I feel I need to do, and I do it on behalf of other people who look like me who don't have the strength to do it right now.
Sagdrina Jalal
I completely relate to that, Rachel. I'm curious, with the governor's new mandate—the reaction in the black community has been very strong, and outside of the black community. I'm really curious, how do we address this? How, as a collective, those that are really focused on addressing these inequalities and these micro-aggressions—and this isn't so micro, right? It's macro—how do we face this head-on when we have our governor clearly targeting businesses that are oftentimes frequented by people of color, that the people who work and run these businesses are being forced back to work, whether they feel safe doing so or they risk not being able to collect unemployment, not being able to take care of their families... what do we do with this?
Rachel Willis
Whew. First, we have to sigh. I think as black people, the number one thing that we need to do is remember that if you don't have to go out, do not go out. I think we have to be aware of the fact, though, that there are so many black people who are actually frontline and essential workers. And we have to be understanding of, "What does that mean?" And I think the thing that just baffles me about the entire pandemic has been that the first case hit the United States on January 24. But the CDC nationally didn't start recording the racial demographics of COVID-19 until April 17. So we let 84 days pass without getting that data. And that means that was 84 days where we couldn't identify clusters that were happening, it was 84 days where we weren't ensuring that black and brown neighborhoods had the majority of testing that was done correctly and quickly so that we could shut it down. So almost in ignoring race and taking this "colorblind" approach, which is not a thing, there was the ability to let COVID-19 spread and impact multiple people, beyond what it needed to be.
Sagdrina Jalal
And you have to think about the fact, we knew immediately that older people were more susceptible, so that was a part of the narrative from the beginning. Why did it take so long for race to be something that we were paying close attention to so that we could protect communities that were more vulnerable?
Rachel Willis
Absolutely. And we knew it was protecting elderly—and we also knew it was protecting men, they wanted men to know that, too. So I didn't get lost on that. But what's been interesting is that, in the state of Georgia, the majority of COVID cases have actually not come from the elderly, but they've come [from] between the ages of 18 to 59. And also within the state of Georgia, while only 13 percent of our residents are African American, we actually represent 31 percent of those new diagnoses for COVID-19 cases since April 17th, and 53 percent of the deaths.
Sagdrina Jalal
Wow. And there has also been conversation about how they're choosing who gets ventilators, the type of care. And this is a conversation: the racism in the healthcare system is something that we've been talking about and paying close attention to before COVID-19, but it's certainly been a huge factor in the way that folks are being treated. I'm wondering what your thoughts are about that as well, when we have such a huge variant between the number of diagnosed cases versus those who are dying from the disease versus the population. It's really hard not to see the connection there.
Rachel Willis
We absolutely still have two very separate and two very unequal societies. And I think it's something we just skirt around because we're like, "We're 50 plus years removed from Jim Crow segregation," but the remnants of that still exist. I think for us, it's important to pay attention to the fact that if the country clubs aren't open, then the nail salon doesn't need to be open. And if I can't go play golf downtown at some of these high-end golf courses, then I also don't need to go to the beauty salon. And I find it very interesting, too, that Governor Kemp talks about safety during the press conference but is on NPR saying, "Don't go out if you don't have to." And so I think what we're hearing on WAOK, "We want authority from leaders," is not the same thing that we hear on 90.1. And so we have to be conscious of that messaging and thinking through, "How can we take care of our own communities? How can we mobilize? What does that look like? But also, how can we get people out of power who are not respecting us as a community as a whole? What is that organization gonna look like?" Because Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms is not playing. She is still like, "I have no jurisdiction to change it, but you all need to stay at home." And I think even just being conscious and aware of how she is personally being targeted throughout this, also. It's really important for us to know this.
Sagdrina Jalal
I think so. Once again, you pointed out the way that they're protecting men, and men are being afforded the luxury of knowing what their risks are, and also being protected in the spaces that they might frequent. And it is interesting when you have a black female mayor who took a stance on behalf of her city very early on, and she had to come against the governor in terms of making mandates that would protect her residents. It's interesting to see how that dynamic played out and how that kind of mirrored the experience of black female leaders in lots of industries and in lots of spaces.
Rachel Willis
Absolutely. And I'm a resident of East Point, and I remember tuning into the Zoom, even watching our mayor plead with some of the Council members, saying, "Please, let's lock it down," even before knowing that it would be one of the strictest lockdowns, before the state of Georgia had shut down, and the resistance that she got. We are definitely seeing this mirror at times when women across the country are trying to take a stand and protect lives and still battling against that fight.
Sagdrina Jalal
So what's the opportunity here? Of course, it's heavy, and it's something you and I talk about a lot, and we certainly try to address, but how can we shift this very polarizing and stressful experience that we're having now with COVID-19 and that we've had prior to COVID-19, what's the opportunity? What's the call to action? How do we take this energy, this frustration, and turn it into something that really changes communities for the better?
Rachel Willis
The first part of it is figuring out—just admitting, honestly, we're now on our own. And I think sometimes we have been waiting for people to save us, and it's time to stop waiting for someone in a cape to come in and for us to all collectively join together. And so, what does that look like? I think that looks like us becoming very conscientious about, "What are the community organizations that are already doing this work, and how can we support them on the ground? So who are the people who have already been supporting our babies, and our best position to make sure that they're successful through the rest of the year with virtual learning, and also, potentially, as we go into the beginning of the school year, if this isn't wrapped up? What are the organizations that we can partner with that are already kind of the watchdogs of the government, and how can we get that information out, and how can we make sure, also, that there is a fair fight for us in the elections?" They stole this last election. And stealing this last election, it literally has become a matter of life or death now for black people in the state of Georgia. And so even if there's an attempt to steal it again, there are gonna be so many sirens going out in so many communities that I think we have an opportunity to do that. I also think one of the things that every single organization and every single government should be doing, without question, is keeping track of the racial demographics in their organizations, and how people of color are having different experiences from their white counterparts. I think that looks like doing an evaluation of, "Who are the people who are at the bottom ladder of our organizational chart? What is their income? Is their income the same as someone who is a white counterpart, and maybe even a white male counterpart? And if so, what is the discrepancy if they're in the same roles, and how can we change that and get it right?" I think it's being really strategic in moments like that.
Sagdrina Jalal
I know you've done a lot of work with large and small organizations. What do you say to organizations that say, "Okay, we recognize that we have a challenge, and we wanna fix it. But there's such a huge gap between where we are and where we know we need to be." How do you help organizations get there?
Rachel Willis
By setting up conversations of, "We know now, we have a painted picture of all of the things that need to change within our organization for us to be truly anti-racist." And when I say anti-racist, it's actually an action—I'm actively choosing every single day of every single moment to fight against the system of racism in the country. And so we have to think through, "Now that we know that, what are the small chunks? What are the easy wins that we can do as an organization, and just automatically do that?" It might be something as simple as creating affinity groups for people across the organization, and that gives people the sense of belonging. And it's like, "Oh, that was easy, and honestly all we had to do was put it on the calendar and people came and they brought their own lunch. And it's a win. And now there's a bigger sense of community." It might sometimes look like, people want more opportunities to dive into, "How does inclusion happen?" So the organization creates a space for a lunch-and-learn to happen over the course of a year where they're reading articles and books and setting that up, and that can be an easy win. But then it's also setting up the types of conversations that need to happen amongst managers and the people who they manage, and also amongst different levels of leadership all the way to, "What are the communities that we're serving?" And really just sitting and listening. And listening without an intention but for asking the question, "What are we doing wrong? What can we do to get better? And how can you help us do that?"
Sagdrina Jalal
It's really just dismantling the whole system, just lighting a match and burning it down.
Rachel Willis
Yeah. Literally. And the thing is, every single day what I tell folks in my workshop is, "Every single day you are either dismantling or reinforcing racism. And you have to make the choice, every single day, 'When I put my feet on the ground, which one am I gonna do?' And you have to own it at the end of the night when you come back to your bed, 'I might've chosen to reinforce it today. Just out of sheer laziness, out of exhaustion, and I couldn't fight against it. But tomorrow I'm gonna be working on dismantling not only what was there two days ago, but what I reinforced yesterday.'"
Sagdrina Jalal
That's right. We're all imperfect, we're all flawed, so even if you have an imperfect day there's an opportunity every day to do better, to get it right. And that, to me, that's hopeful. It's helpful and it's hopeful. I think that's really great. So you have a lot of work ahead of you, clearly. I'm curious, what do you see, or where do you see Elevating Equity in five years? In ten years? Post-COVID-19? But we know COVID-19, as we talked about, has just brought to surface a lot of these issues that you've been tackling anyway. How does the work evolve and what is it gonna look like in those two different time periods?
Rachel Willis
I think the work evolves in just making this so much more accessible. I think the beauty of having to be stuck at home—or safe at home, if I change that—is really just the opportunity to realize that this can happen. You can have these conversations about race and racism and go to a workshop about it, and it can all happen from the comfort of your sofa. And so being really intentional of me opening that space up for people to just come, dive in, learn, and attend courses where they're learning about this and learning, "How can I dismantle this?" And giving individuals the opportunity versus solely honing in on organizations that want to do this work. Ten years from now, I want Atlanta to be both the destination and the model of what anti-racism looks like in America. I feel like we are uniquely positioned to do that based on our history of how far we've come. We hold the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. in our hands, and I think it's an opportunity for us to show that, "Yes, we might've turned into a burning house, but we have put out the flames and we have rebuilt, and we now want to show you how to do that, and how we get it done." So that's my long-term goal. That's what I want to be working on through thought leadership, through calling out and not being politically correct about who I say is doing the wrong thing, and also about educating and giving people the tools that they need to go fight another day.
Sagdrina Jalal
That's incredible. We're so blessed to have you fighting for Atlanta as a part of the CCI community. You had mentioned earlier about the importance, when organizations or entities are considering shifting from their anti-racist practices and maybe even policies, how affinity groups might play a role in that. I'm curious, because that's a big part of what we do at CCI, if you can give me an idea of how that network supports you and your work, and also in that conversation, how is Rachel taking care of Rachel?
Rachel Willis
I think becoming a Fellow at CCI was just one of the best things I ever did for myself as an entrepreneur. I was flying solo for two years, and then I got to become a part of a cohort, and now part of, specifically, a women's affinity group. And it's just been such a positive opportunity for me to be around women in similar places with their organizations, and supporting and understanding, "I not only want to support you in telling you, 'Here's a better way to name your value proposition,' or 'Girl, your marketing could use some help. I'm gonna put you on with my press person,' but somebody who also was like, 'How's your spirit?' 'How's your Momma and Daddy right now?'" And knowing that there's so many more layers and so much more depth. And I feel like CCI's been one of the biggest blessings that has come to me, not only as an entrepreneur but even just as a person. My therapist today was even like, "How are your CCI girls?" I was like, "We alright!"
Sagdrina Jalal
"We getting together later!" That's awesome. For me, too, it's incredible. I was so excited to have this conversation, and Rohit did an amazing job. You guys had a great conversation, so I think it worked out the way it was supposed to. But being with you and holding this space with you is like coming home to me. And so it's really beautiful to be able to share that with a larger audience and to really tackle these issues. We talked before that we're not holding back. We're gonna go there. It's good to see other people joining the conversation, but at the end of the day, we have to own this and we have to recognize, like you said, "We gotta do this. We're alone in this. There is no savior. There is no cape. We just have to roll up our sleeves and get this work done." And fortunately, there is an opportunity for more people to join in and recognize what we've been saying all along. So I truly appreciate the fact that you are steadfast in that and that you've been doing the work long before CCI was even a thing, but certainly before this COVID-19 crisis. I appreciate and I value the fact that you are ready to take it on, and that you're taking it to the next level. We're better for it. I will say before we leave, and I don't know if you're brave enough—but I'm holding out, girl. My nails are really horrible. They're so bad. But you know what, like you said, it's an opportunity to shelter safely and to really think and reflect on, "Those things are really wonderful things, but how are we protecting communities, and how are we valuing those that are most vulnerable?" So thank you so, so much, Rachel, for all that you bring to this work.
Rachel Willis
Thank you so much. It was good chatting with you today.